Tape as backup solution

For how many years would tape still be a viable option? Currently my data is backed up on a stack of hdd's. They need replacement every couple of years and are expensive. I'm considering to get an LTO-5 tape drive to backup data to tapes instead.

 

Currently my data is backed up on a stack of hdd's

Are you saying that every backup you make takes a stack of HDDs, or are these collected over several years??

Key questions need accurate answers:

> Approximately how large is each backup you make?

> Is this for a commercial/business application, or just your personal computer at home?

Tape backups have gone the route of prehistoric history. I think that HP may still make a system, but I'm not sure about that, and it's very "iffy" how long they will support that technology since there is little demand for it. You can get 2/3TB HDDs now, and the prices of SSDs are falling rapidly.

The hdd's are collected over several years. Currently I have about 35 TB of data, which is personal data (although in my opinion personal data can be just as important as business data). I'm an enthusiastic mineral collector and photographer. My plan is to photograph most of my collection using focus stacking, where multiple files are taken and combined for increased depth of field at high magnification. This produces tons of data and I like to keep all the raw files if possible. I may want to process them again at some point. A rough estimation is that it could easily produce 100 TB of raw files, although I do not know how many years it will take.

The LTO page on wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Tape-Open]) contains a table where LTO-9 - LTO-12 standards are yet to be released. They can contain up to 192 TB uncompressed data. The drives are very expensive, but I think it shows that tape is clearly not history (yet). The current drives that can write 12 TB tapes are easily 5000 usd, which is above my budget. However, I am hoping an older LTO-5 is a good alternative for the coming couple of years (instead of buying more drives that last only 5 to 7 years).

Edited by nielsvanvelzen, 18 December 2018 - 03:46 PM.

Tape requires very stringent storage conditions to maintain viability over long periods of time.  I'd never even consider it for home use.  (Also, I presume you meant 192TB of data, as 192GB easily fits on many compact backup drives - I just bought a 4 TB WD drive for about $80).

Were I you, and you really want to keep that much data, I'd be looking into cloud storage, which can be had at far lower expense (even over a period of years) and has the added advantage of having professional data center backup regimens going on in case they would have failure.  The companies like Google, Amazon, Carbonite, etc., that sell cloud storage know that it's being used for what their clients consider critical data, and they're not going to expose themselves to the liability that would come with losing it.

Yes, I meant 192 TB. Normally I use the correct unit but 192 TB is so much that my fingers automatically typed GB because '192' and 'TB' cannot fit together haha.

Actually cloud storage is quite expensive. One of the cheaper options is backblaze B2, which is $0.005 per GB/month storage and $0.01/GB download. It translates to about 500usd per month just for storage. Dropbox unlimited is about 1000 usd per year.

Why are tape storage conditions so stringent? What are those conditions, constant temperature and low humidity?

Truthfully, you are in to a realm in which I have limited experience. The only thing that I know about tape is what Brian mentioned above; and, yes, you are correct in mentioning temperature, humidity, and exposure to UV from sunlight all contribute. In addition, there is the constant danger of mechanical failure on the drives themselves. If a drive fails and breaks the fragile tape...well, you get the picture. I dimly remember my experiences at Northwestern U. decades ago in the Vogleback center; they had techs mounting and dismounting large tape reels, and I talked with a few. Their storage rooms were dark, had dust filtering setups, temperature and humidity controlled.

I will bow out of this thread since I don't think I can contribute toward solving your need. Wish you the best!

A related, but equally important question: what prices are to be expected for conventional hard drives and ssd storage? SSD only has advantages over conventional hard drives in terms of its properties. The only reason that not everything is SSD (yet) is its cost. SSD prices are rapidly declining and at some point I would predict that conventional drives must decline with it, otherwise nobody would buy them anymore.

Currently, a typical consumer 8 TB harddrive is about 30 euro per TB. The cheapest Samsung SSD (per TB) is a Samsung QVO 4 TB, which costs about 140 euro per TB.

What would a consumer harddrive and a SSD cost per TB in mid 2020?

No one except an industry analyst would have any sort of even semi-accurate guess, and even then it's probably more semi than accurate.

If you're not in a rush then wait and see what occurs with SSDs.

I really don't believe that they will become prevalent as long-term backup devices for massive quantities of data any time in the near future.  Platter drives have become both incredibly reliable and durable and the price per TB is just dirt cheap already and getting cheaper.  They'll have their niche for long term mass storage for many years to come.

What if you look at the % per year drop over the last 2 years and extrapolate that? Could it be off completely? Would you be surprised if SSD's drop only 20% in price over the next 2 years?

You don't think that in 5 years time 99% of all storage in datacenters is SSD-based?

Edited by nielsvanvelzen, 19 December 2018 - 10:07 AM.

You don't think that in 5 years time 99% of all storage in datacenters is SSD-based?

Given the lifespan of the types of platter drives used by data centers, absolutely not.  These things have lifespans in the range of decades in many instances and they're not going to be "junked" just because something newer has come along.

If the cost of SSD ever becomes the same, or less, than platter drives then those will be replaced as they reach end of service life, which will be a long, slow process.

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You don't think that in 5 years time 99% of all storage in datacenters is SSD-based?

 

Given the lifespan of the types of platter drives used by data centers, absolutely not.  These things have lifespans in the range of decades in many instances and they're not going to be "junked" just because something newer has come along.

 

If the cost of SSD ever becomes the same, or less, than platter drives then those will be replaced as they reach end of service life, which will be a long, slow process.

 

Decades? Which drives are we talking about? Seagate Enterprise, WD Red Pro?

This is an interesting read.

https://withblue.ink/2016/07/15/what-i-learnt-from-using-wd-red-disks-to-build-a-home-nas.html

My experience with tape drives was in the early 2000's. We had Windows 98 machines running our POS system which backed up to an external HP tape drive. We treated those tapes pretty rough. Every night run the backup, we'd eject, pop it into its holder, throw it in the truck seat, drive home. Then, back to the store in the AM and pop it back in. We had 4 stores, 3 tapes per store, same procedure. I never had one fail in 4 years as we progressed to external HDD backups by then. 

What I've come across and read for years: one way to increase longevity is making sure your power supply is adequate and clean even going as far as having a dedicated outlet for your storage array. Then there is adequate cooling. From what I understand, those two things are very important in HDD longevity.

To Brian's point of decades, I still have some of those plain jane HDD's from the early 2000's in which ran in a computer for 12+ years. Just a few months ago, for nostalgia's sake, I attached them to an external HDD reader and was able to read and write to these drives. 

Today, I use RAID 1, External HDD, offsite NAS (with WD Reds in RAID 1) Although nothing like the amount of data you have mentioned.

Edited by xrobwx, 21 December 2018 - 08:20 PM.

Tape isn't going away anytime soon; The cloud has to be backed up to somewhere ;)

In all seriousness, tape remains a key component of many large enterprise backup strategies.

Typically, routine/high frequency backups/deltas are cached to [the faster] RAID SSD/HDD backed file/cloud servers;  Over time (generally at lower backup frequency) those backup deltas are aggregated through slower storage media, until they ultimately land on [relatively slow] tape media for long-term storage.

Offline backups [like tape] help provide peace of mind against losing everything in various data disaster scenarios (fire, ransomware, etc...)

As has been mentioned, it's important to remember that *any* media (including tape) will eventually fail.  Plan accordingly.

Advantages of tape: Relatively cheap for storing large quantities of data (no bandwidth fees to transmit TB/PB/EBs of data to remote cloud storage), generally good longevity if stored properly

Disadvantages of tape: Targeted at organizations with a budget; Presently only (two?) cartridge manufacturers; Relatively slow transfer speeds compared to SSD/HDD throughput.

One problem that Tape has, that has not been mentioned.

Bleed: If tapes are left un-touched for a long period of time, there is a possibility of a bleed, of content, between adjacent tape on the reel, the magnetic medium mingles. and therefor - the corruption of that record

Edited by wee-eddie, 10 February 2023 - 06:37 AM.