Hak5 O.MG Malicious Cable Detector found something

Hi! Black Friday afforded me many great deals, amongst them this item. Curiosity has revealed to me a cable that seems to be malicious. It's USB A to C. Should such a cable have anything other than wiring in it? When I plugged it in, the light flickered on and off (not bright, maybe 1-3x/second), and nothing was plugged in to the other end. I also tested another USB A to C cable, and the cable for my webcam, neither of which caused this.

The A side of course had a larger junction cover, but it was very tightly mounted and I couldn't remove it so I used my rotary tool to cut through the plastic. Underneath was soft rubber, which I removed with a knife, but nothing other than wires were there.

The C side had a small cover over the junction between plug and cable, and that cover was loose enough that it came off by itself months ago. Hidden under the rubber on that side was a tiny PCB. Now, I have no idea what that PCB is for, nor do I recall which device it came with, sadly.

So, is this one legit and needs a PCB to work, making the other one a much slower, fake USB A to C, or is the other one legit and this one is malicious?

AFAIK, yes, the PCB is required.

But I could be wrong.

Edited by 0lds0d, 30 November 2023 - 07:27 PM.

AFAIK, yes, the PCB is required.

But I could be wrong.

So the other cable that didn't get "detected" is....?

OK.

 

Defective Detector or more appropriately, a false detection for the other cable.

Edited by 0lds0d, 30 November 2023 - 07:43 PM.

Should such a cable have anything other than wiring in it?

Why not! What I see in your photos is just a technique to solder "big" wires to tiny connector pins. Not really any other way to do this. The other cables must have tiny wires. I prefer BIG ones.

The component on the PCB is only a resistor. Nothing to be concerned about.

 

When I plugged it in, the light flickered on and off (not bright, maybe 1-3x/second), and nothing was plugged in to the other end.

There must have been a short or a loose connection.  It would have been interesting results if you had tested the wires before opening up the cable (G to G, D- to D-, D+ to D+ and V to V).

 

this one is malicious?

Lets ask anti-malware software vendors to scan our cables too.

Edited by Dominique1, 01 December 2023 - 12:51 AM.

Helpful advice in your other topic, as well:

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1544529-hak5-omg-malicious-cable-detector-found-something/

Helpful advice in your other topic, as well:

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1544529-hak5-omg-malicious-cable-detector-found-something/

Yup, thanks for linking to it!

My suspicion is that the "malicious cable detector" simply runs a conductivity test on all pins, if it finds indications of anything other than a simple connection from one end of the cable to the equivalent pin at the other then it gives a warning. Thesedays far too many USB cables are not simple cables, but devices in their own right with microcontrollers inside to negotiate things like the maximum current to be drawn. This is especailly true of USB C. I couldn't see a link to a photo you'd taken of a USB cable disassembled, but if you can show it, I could have a good go at identifying what is on any circuit boards shown. Amongst these articles: https://hackaday.com/series_of_posts/all-about-usb-c/ is one which will tell you about how many silicon chips are now involved in what used to be a simple set of wires when the USB standard was first conceived.

Edited by rp88, 03 December 2023 - 01:14 PM.

My suspicion is that the "malicious cable detector" simply runs a conductivity test on all pins, if it finds indications of anything other than a simple connection from one end of the cable to the equivalent pin at the other then it gives a warning. Thesedays far too many USB cables are not simple cables, but devices in their own right with microcontrollers inside to negotiate things like the maximum current to be drawn. This is especailly true of USB C. I couldn't see a link to a photo you'd taken of a USB cable disassembled, but if you can show it, I could have a good go at identifying what is on any circuit boards shown. Amongst these articles: https://hackaday.com/series_of_posts/all-about-usb-c/ is one which will tell you about how many silicon chips are now involved in what used to be a simple set of wires when the USB standard was first conceived.

Yeah, I've recently started learning about this, although it's not a priority to understand these things. If you want to see photos, try the link MoxieMama put up. And thanks!

This cord type A to Type C has to have a chip in it so it still supports the orientation capabilities of the type c. They may have partial mini controller capabilities to handle power management, OTG support, support to make sure they perform as advertised 10gb. That is all you will get on a Type A to Type C, as you are limited by the USB 3.X side that is ultimately limited by the cord as well as the devices/Motherboard. Also the controller of external devices matters. Some may not get full speed, some may have a hard time being detected by windows. It's a mess. I got around some of those issues getting a pci 1x add on card with USB 3.2 and type c ports and 19pin port for the front headers that are still 3.2. There is a whole slew of of convoluted stuff out there..
Type A...3.2 Gen1 (5G), 3.2 Gen2(10G), 3.2 (20G)Gen2x2.
Then you have..
Type C's....USB4 20G, USB4 (40G), USB4 Gen3x2 (40G), USB4 Version 2.0 (80G).

This cord type A to Type C has to have a chip in it so it still supports the orientation capabilities of the type c. They may have partial mini controller capabilities to handle power management, OTG support, support to make sure they perform as advertised 10gb. That is all you will get on a Type A to Type C, as you are limited by the USB 3.X side that is ultimately limited by the cord as well as the devices/Motherboard. Also the controller of external devices matters. Some may not get full speed, some may have a hard time being detected by windows. It's a mess. I got around some of those issues getting a pci 1x add on card with USB 3.2 and type c ports and 19pin port for the front headers that are still 3.2. There is a whole slew of of convoluted stuff out there..
Type A...3.2 Gen1 (5G), 3.2 Gen2(10G), 3.2 (20G)Gen2x2.
Then you have..
Type C's....USB4 20G, USB4 (40G), USB4 Gen3x2 (40G), USB4 Version 2.0 (80G).

Thanks! Could you delve into this further?

 

This cord type A to Type C has to have a chip in it so it still supports the orientation capabilities of the type c. They may have partial mini controller capabilities to handle power management, OTG support, support to make sure they perform as advertised 10gb. That is all you will get on a Type A to Type C, as you are limited by the USB 3.X side that is ultimately limited by the cord as well as the devices/Motherboard. Also the controller of external devices matters. Some may not get full speed, some may have a hard time being detected by windows. It's a mess. I got around some of those issues getting a pci 1x add on card with USB 3.2 and type c ports and 19pin port for the front headers that are still 3.2. There is a whole slew of of convoluted stuff out there..
Type A...3.2 Gen1 (5G), 3.2 Gen2(10G), 3.2 (20G)Gen2x2.
Then you have..
Type C's....USB4 20G, USB4 (40G), USB4 Gen3x2 (40G), USB4 Version 2.0 (80G).

Thanks! Could you delve into this further?

 

What do you want to know?

 

 

This cord type A to Type C has to have a chip in it so it still supports the orientation capabilities of the type c. They may have partial mini controller capabilities to handle power management, OTG support, support to make sure they perform as advertised 10gb. That is all you will get on a Type A to Type C, as you are limited by the USB 3.X side that is ultimately limited by the cord as well as the devices/Motherboard. Also the controller of external devices matters. Some may not get full speed, some may have a hard time being detected by windows. It's a mess. I got around some of those issues getting a pci 1x add on card with USB 3.2 and type c ports and 19pin port for the front headers that are still 3.2. There is a whole slew of of convoluted stuff out there..
Type A...3.2 Gen1 (5G), 3.2 Gen2(10G), 3.2 (20G)Gen2x2.
Then you have..
Type C's....USB4 20G, USB4 (40G), USB4 Gen3x2 (40G), USB4 Version 2.0 (80G).

Thanks! Could you delve into this further?

 

What do you want to know?

 

You mentioned that some may not get full speed - why? Why would some not be easily detected by Windows? Is there any easy way, short of buying one of those very expensive cable testers, to avoid buying the duds? I assume that if my case and mobo don't support the 40 & 80GB modes out of the box that I'd have to buy a PCIe card to provide that, right? Is there anything else you think I should know?

 

 

 

This cord type A to Type C has to have a chip in it so it still supports the orientation capabilities of the type c. They may have partial mini controller capabilities to handle power management, OTG support, support to make sure they perform as advertised 10gb. That is all you will get on a Type A to Type C, as you are limited by the USB 3.X side that is ultimately limited by the cord as well as the devices/Motherboard. Also the controller of external devices matters. Some may not get full speed, some may have a hard time being detected by windows. It's a mess. I got around some of those issues getting a pci 1x add on card with USB 3.2 and type c ports and 19pin port for the front headers that are still 3.2. There is a whole slew of of convoluted stuff out there..
Type A...3.2 Gen1 (5G), 3.2 Gen2(10G), 3.2 (20G)Gen2x2.
Then you have..
Type C's....USB4 20G, USB4 (40G), USB4 Gen3x2 (40G), USB4 Version 2.0 (80G).

Thanks! Could you delve into this further?

 

What do you want to know?

 

You mentioned that some may not get full speed - why? Why would some not be easily detected by Windows? Is there any easy way, short of buying one of those very expensive cable testers, to avoid buying the duds? I assume that if my case and mobo don't support the 40 & 80GB modes out of the box that I'd have to buy a PCIe card to provide that, right? Is there anything else you think I should know?

 

Sory for the late reply. There is a long list of reasons why things don't work the way they should. Hardware itself, drivers, software, cables. If the motherboard has a type c what generation is it?? With wires they come in all shapes and sizes.Buying the box read the fine print. If it charges at what watts? Using a cable that is type C to type A 3.0 is just a glorified adapter. It will run at 3.0 Type A speeds and with volt/amps 5V x .900ma/A @ 4.5W. A type C can handle a lot more data and 100watts and more streams. Cables with charge and data and more watts will be thick cables with good shielding. Type C is like networking all the device hardware end to end and the wire all need to support the speed you are looking for. Yes, if the motherboard isn't knew and it doesn't have a USB4 or thunderbolt 4, then you need a expansion PCIE and even then you might only get 5 or 10GBps on a cheap 1x.You might have to look into what speed it supports. Then you need a USB type C USB4/Thunderbolt docker 14in1 hub that can supply the watts.Lastly...cables that also support USB4 or Thunderbolt.

Edited by technonymous, 07 January 2024 - 01:49 PM.

 

 

 

 

This cord type A to Type C has to have a chip in it so it still supports the orientation capabilities of the type c. They may have partial mini controller capabilities to handle power management, OTG support, support to make sure they perform as advertised 10gb. That is all you will get on a Type A to Type C, as you are limited by the USB 3.X side that is ultimately limited by the cord as well as the devices/Motherboard. Also the controller of external devices matters. Some may not get full speed, some may have a hard time being detected by windows. It's a mess. I got around some of those issues getting a pci 1x add on card with USB 3.2 and type c ports and 19pin port for the front headers that are still 3.2. There is a whole slew of of convoluted stuff out there..
Type A...3.2 Gen1 (5G), 3.2 Gen2(10G), 3.2 (20G)Gen2x2.
Then you have..
Type C's....USB4 20G, USB4 (40G), USB4 Gen3x2 (40G), USB4 Version 2.0 (80G).

Thanks! Could you delve into this further?

 

What do you want to know?

 

You mentioned that some may not get full speed - why? Why would some not be easily detected by Windows? Is there any easy way, short of buying one of those very expensive cable testers, to avoid buying the duds? I assume that if my case and mobo don't support the 40 & 80GB modes out of the box that I'd have to buy a PCIe card to provide that, right? Is there anything else you think I should know?

 

Sory for the late reply. There is a long list of reasons why things don't work the way they should. Hardware itself, drivers, software, cables. If the motherboard has a type c what generation is it?? With wires they come in all shapes and sizes.Buying the box read the fine print. If it charges at what watts? Using a cable that is type C to type A 3.0 is just a glorified adapter. It will run at 3.0 Type A speeds and with volt/amps 5V x .900ma/A @ 4.5W. A type C can handle a lot more data and 100watts and more streams. Cables with charge and data and more watts will be thick cables with good shielding. Type C is like networking all the device hardware end to end and the wire all need to support the speed you are looking for. Yes, if the motherboard isn't knew and it doesn't have a USB4 or thunderbolt 4, then you need a expansion PCIE and even then you might only get 5 or 10GBps on a cheap 1x.You might have to look into what speed it supports. Then you need a USB type C USB4/Thunderbolt docker 14in1 hub that can supply the watts.Lastly...cables that also support USB4 or Thunderbolt.

 

Thanks!